One often overlooked conversation in society is men’s mental health, particularly for Black men. Filmmaker Bernard Gray aims to change the narrative by shedding light on this with his latest short film, The Other Stuff, which recently had its world premiere at the 24th Reelworld Film Festival.
Starring Dwain Murphy, The Other Stuff follows 30-year-old Winston, who attends couples therapy with his wife, Shannon (Golden Madison). Their therapy journey takes an unexpected turn when Winston’s childhood trauma resurfaces. Then, Winston confronts his Uncle Oliver (Nigel Shawn Williams), the source of his abuse, to find closure.
I had the privilege of screening the film, which tugs at the heartstrings. Its emotional impact will stay with you after the credits roll. I also had the privilege of chatting with Bernard and Dwain about The Other Stuff, mental health for Black men, how this film will resonate with audiences and more.
RELATED: Arcane Co-Creator Christian Linke Shares How Finding the Middle Made Arcane Real
This interview is condensed for length and clarity.
Bernard Gray and Dwain Murphy
Melody McCune: How did you both get involved in this industry? What are your origin stories?
Bernard Gray: I come from an artistic family. My parents came to Canada in the ’80s. We all entered drawing and painting competitions. We did talent shows. I used to model. I played all sorts of instruments. As I got older, all those things coalesced into film. I like being behind the camera now. I like driving a story and being the curator of the idea.
That’s where people like Dwain come in. I can put him in a scene and be like, “If this actor’s not good, he’s going to be enough. If this actor’s awesome, he’ll keep up with him.” It’s a gift for a director to have someone like him, even though it was hell and high water to get him in the film. Now, we’ve become close friends. I cherish that friendship quite a bit.
Acting Origins
MM: For Dwain, how did you get into acting?
Dwain Murphy: It was always something I did as a kid. I’m an only child. When my mother and father separated, I saw darkness come over my mom. I always wanted to make her laugh, make her smile. That transcended into my day-to-day life. Anytime I was around people, I wanted them to be uplifted.
I wanted them to feel good because there’s so much garbage in our lives that we’ll never get to speak about. I get joy from seeing people smile, even if through interacting with me or being in the same space. Sometimes, that can be a bit energy-draining for me, though.
RELATED: Samantha Brown on From Season 3 and Playing Acosta
MM: Yes, I imagine.
DM: I’ve learned over the years how to balance that. Going into high school, I had a drama teacher who, in grade 10, said, “You should take acting seriously because you are really good. You’re captivating to watch. You have an energy about you.”
Then, we had a clash in front of everybody. That led to her having a sit down with me. I don’t know what it was, but something got through to me. I said, “I’m going to try. I’m going to take it seriously and see what happens.”
That transitioned into me going to acting school — Humber College Lakeshore Campus — for a two-year program. Funny enough, I was like, I need a program close to home, so I Googled. I’m from a single-parent household. I was living in Scarborough then and could get there by bus.
Attending School and Meeting Bernard
It was only the second year they introduced the program. I graduated with honors at the top of the class; the rest is history. I’ve been able to carve out a niche in this business for almost 20 years, where I haven’t been pigeonholed as the young Black thug. I’ve been able to play all kinds of different characters. I’m thankful for that.
RELATED: GGA Chats With Hysteria! Cast About Metal, Mayhem and More
Apparently, people were recommending me for The Other Stuff. Once I met Bernard, saw his energy and read the script, I said, “Oh, this is a no-brainer.” Bernard brings a great sense of wisdom to his writing and a sense of self.
The Other Stuff
MM: Bernard, what inspired you to create The Other Stuff?
BG: I have a weird thing that comes from being a creative producer for a long time. We are trained to develop ideas quite aggressively. I did that for 10 years.
Then, I was doing a project for a nonprofit organization. They specialize in mental health for youth. We were transitioning out of Aboriginal and the Indigenous community for a lot of [the] work they had done. It was quite effective, and they had made a positive impact. Then, I saw what they had planned for the Black community, which was the next community they were going to target.
I remember saying to myself, “This is not going to work.” The approach or attitude of, “We did this for this community. We’re going to take that template and apply it to this other community because we had success.” I was a microcosm of an organization that was probably 94 to 95 percent white. Then, using this data set and applying it to another culture, population and race of people … I thought that was very ignorant of them.
When I challenged my boss at the time on her position on whether that was rational or even fair, her rebuttal was, “Well, we got this data from a Black organization.” That, for me, was like, “Oh, so we’re just whitewashing.”
RELATED: Meredith Moriarty Talks Third Shift Society and What Lies Ahead
There was a level of box-ticking that was unethical to me. When I saw the material, I said, “There is no mention of men in this.” Again, [it was] an organization with five men working in the entire place, and I was one of two Black men.
Speaking to a Community
I have a voice as a filmmaker. These are the people I grew up with. If you’ve been in Toronto or the GTA for the last three months, there’s a shooting every other day. Those murders and crimes are being committed in the communities we want to tap into. Now, when this was being put together, that wasn’t happening because it was last year and a bit.
I had just gotten married and finally found somebody I could talk to in a way that wasn’t a chore. Having her in my life, I’m saying to myself, “Wow, I think we would have a better community, particularly young Black men, if we had someone to talk to.” If you’re not from those areas, you don’t know how to move in those places. We don’t talk to our parents about what’s bothering us.
We had each other as young boys and young men to advise. The problem with that is it’s the broken advising the broken. Often, we are still trying to prove ourselves to each other. We don’t genuinely speak about what’s troubling us.
I like to say that young Black men are an entirely different species. We are dealing with a separate set of circumstances and options. We can’t say, “Well, I’ll just go to school.” Most of us don’t have the grades. Then, if we did have the grades, we don’t have the money. If we do have the money, we probably have a criminal record. If we don’t have a criminal record, we probably have two kids already.
Making Something Profound
When we write a script, it must be profound. It has to be powerful. Then, within that, you deliver the subtext of this message. They leave the theater like, “You see when he did this thing? I didn’t see that coming,” but quietly, “Maybe I can talk to someone.”
That’s how you deliver it. Maybe we do an outreach program, [but] that stuff doesn’t work on young men anymore. There was a time and place for that, but now 16-year-olds feel like they know already. You’re not going to convince them. You have to plant the seed, be patient and hope that that seed germinates. Also, understand that some of these people don’t want to change.
RELATED: Rings of Power: Charlie Vickers on Sauron’s Motivations in Action-Packed Season Finale
A Powerful Ending
MM: The film ends with that final line, which is so powerful yet devastating. There’s also a sliver of hope. How important was it to end it at that point in Winston’s journey?
BG: That was a critical decision. I wish you had seen the three or four versions of how that ended to give you context. I want to leave the story in a place where it is unresolved. It’s not always the greatest way to leave a film because you don’t know what happened. It’s in this place where she’s (Shannon) like, “Talk to me.”
I hope the young women who watch this will be like my wife for me in that I can talk to her about anything. I want young men to find that. That’s important, and I hope they don’t wait until they’re 40 to find it. I want the young men to leave the theater saying, “What do you think happened after that?”
That’s watering the seed once you’ve planted it. It’s giving the fertilizer to the seed so that a week, a month, a year from there, they say to themselves, “Let me call this person. Let me try to have a conversation.” That’s it.
Preparing to Play Winston
MM: For Dwain, how did you prepare for such an emotionally challenging role?
DM: I texted and called BG like crazy, asking a million questions. The great thing BG creates with his cast and working environment is a really safe space for us to gather, ask questions [and] rehearse. That’s what I did on the surface. On the private side, I dealt with some of the sexual things suggested in the film. I dealt with that when I was young.
RELATED: Leif Talks Take All of Us and a New Brand of Zombieism
I had an experience with a babysitter — not understanding what we were doing, what I was doing — I knew what those emotions felt like. For me, acting is very therapeutic.
Art is life, and life is art. It was going down that mental path of, “Yes, I remember these emotions I’ve bottled up and pushed away and never talked about.” Exactly what we’re stressing here. I never talked about it with anyone.
I said, “Maybe this is the time for me to mentally go back down that road and explore those emotions, whether by myself or talking with someone,” which I did a bit with BG.
[That’s what] I love about roles like this. You’re pushing open doors in your mind you’ve essentially barricaded, seeing what those emotions are and sitting in them and saying, “Wow, that was wrong.” I want that challenge.
MM: I’m so sorry you went through that.
DM: Thank you.
Using Three Words
MM: I’m glad this was a cathartic experience for you. Either of you can answer this. Describe The Other Stuff using three words.
BG: Raw. Powerful. Genuine. There’s a general intention for writers to write what would really happen. Then, they often find themselves in a place that’s not fun because film is [about] the good parts of life. That’s why you don’t have films about doing laundry and grocery shopping.
RELATED: Rings of Power: Charlotte Brändström and Alex Disenhof on Filming Epic Episode 7
I tried to go the other way, saying, “What would actually happen?” If you’re familiar with the Jamaican community, they’re not apologizing to younger people. It’s very much, “I am your elder. That means no matter what happened between us, I have the righteousness. You have to hold that until you have nephews.” That’s a very toxic culture. In this situation, young men would fight back for their autonomy and manhood.
That’s why he (Winston) wants him (Oliver) to apologize because he wants his manhood back. You’re dealing with young men who cannot accept that these things happened to them because they feel like that must mean they’re gay, trans, bi, etc. Mix that with the homophobic culture they exist in, [and] they can’t confront and deal with these conflicting issues. That’s why young men from those ends [are] violent. They’re quick to anger.
I say “genuine” because that’s how people from our community deal with situations. That’s how we solve issues. That’s not conducive to the modern world or any world, to be honest.
RELATED: Snowpiercer‘s Ian Collins Explains How COVID Saved Tristan
What’s on the Horizon
MM: What’s on the horizon for you both, career-wise, after this?
DM: I’ve got a project coming on Prime Video — Cross. I’m one of the many detectives on the show who are part of the group that solves cases with the main characters. We’re also gearing up for our next short film, which I will be executive producing with Bernard Gray, the director and writer extraordinaire. Our bond keeps growing.
MM: That’s wonderful. Congratulations.
DM: Thank you.
BG: I have a different approach to being a filmmaker. My years as a producer forged me into a certain type of individual. I work on a lot of things at once. Right now, I probably have about five different projects that are running. One of them is a feature called Pops. Dwain will play a big role in that as soon as we get money behind it. We just did our application to Telefilm. I hope we get development funding to go ahead and write that script. We have an outline.
I also have a TV show I’m developing with Anthony Farrell, who is the guy, especially in the Black community. He and I have been working on a limited series. We have a package for it now. We’ll probably start pitching it in the next month or so. I already pitched it to a couple of production companies and studios, and the interest was really strong.
Then, after that, we have the short film. That script is locked. We’re pretty much locked on principal casting. I have an episodic doc that goes into production in December or January. Then, I have a feature doc that will probably go into production around the same time, depending on how funding goes. 2026 will be a big year if all things go the right way.
The Life of an Artist
MM: Wow! Do you sleep?
BG: My wife and I talked about this two days ago, of how much adjustment it’s been for her living and dealing with someone like me. Dwain probably understands this as well. Maybe you do as a writer. I don’t wake up at 8.30, shower, have breakfast and then jump on the laptop by 9:00. I wake up when my body’s like, “You’ve had enough rest.”
MM: Yes, I’m the same way.
BG: Right? We have unorthodox schedules. I think this is the way of the artist.
Thank you, Bernard and Dwain, for chatting with GGA!
You can follow Bernard on Instagram (@directedbybg) and keep up with his work. You can also follow Dwain on Instagram (@murph13_13) and watch him in Prime Video’s Cross on November 14.
Melanie Scrofano and Tim Rozon on What to Expect in WYNONNA EARP: VENGEANCE
[email protected]
What I do: I'm GGA's Managing Editor, a Senior Contributor, and Press Coordinator. I manage, contribute, and coordinate. Sometimes all at once. Joking aside, I oversee day-to-day operations for GGA, write, edit, and assess interview opportunities/press events.
Who I am: Before moving to Los Angeles after studying theater in college, I was born and raised in Amish country, Ohio. No, I am not Amish, even if I sometimes sport a modest bonnet.
Bylines in: Tell-Tale TV, Culturess, Sideshow Collectibles, and inkMend on Medium.
Critic: Rotten Tomatoes, CherryPicks, and the Hollywood Creative Alliance.
- BAD SISTERS Recap: (S02E06) Who by Water - December 11, 2024
- WHAT WE DO IN THE SHADOWS Recap: (S06E10) The Promotion - December 9, 2024
- THE WHEEL OF TIME: Prime Video Sets Premiere Date and Releases Teaser Trailer for Season 3 - December 7, 2024
